Comments on Baptists From their Enemies

If anyone has any familiarity with the booklet called "The Trail of Blood" (link ==> here), you may have noticed a quote on the first few pages, from a man known as Hosius Stanislaus.  This quote has caused some dispute, as its supposedly from a work titled "Apud Opera".  I will add, that while I am no historian or scholar, my impression of the Trail of Blood, is the author may be making some leaps to label so many groups as Baptist.  The Author, JM Carroll does however, on page 10 acknowledge "Let it not be thought that all these persecuted ones were always loyal in all respects to New Testament teachings."  That said, Carroll does provide numerous other quotes that echo my sentiments in general as well, that there have always been those that stood on the same doctrine of (1) Salvation by faith alone, without works and (2) Baptistm, while important, does not save.  They might not have always had buildings with signs out front, nor respected among the establishment, but they were there.  Some individuals may have been, at some points members of the Catholic church, but from the beginning there were those that would not adhere to those that would eventually become the Catholic church.  They refused to attend their councils and their demands to baptize their babies.  They preached the Gospel though pains of persecution and death.

On the subject of the works of Hosius Stanislaus, one work I did manage to find of his is titled "A Most Excelent Treatise of the begynnyng of herefyes ".  If anyone is familiar with the recent troubles at the Archive.org website, it might not surprise you when I say that website is having trouble still.  The work in question was originally written in Latin in 1565, but was translated into English (early modern/late middle) by another high-ranking Catholic cardinal named Richard Shacklock in about 1601.  A screenshot of the cover I provide below.  I can no longer locate this on Archive.org for some reason, but there is another copy (see link ==> here) which is actually more readable, but one needs to create a (free) account on archive.org to access the content. Another copy on the University of Oxford website is here (see link ==> here). In this book, the author makes numerous mentions of Anabaptists and connects them with the same doctrine dating all the way back to the time of Augustine (of Hippo), eg.  350AD.  Just one more tidbit to illustrate that Baptists are not "protestants", for they were around well before the "reformation".

 This is what the original copy of Richard Shacklock's translation looked like.  

Here is sample scan of just one of the pages I found interesting.  Out of the mouth of a high-ranking Catholic, they are connecting Baptists all the way back to the time of Augustine (of Hippo most likely, eg. 350 AD).  I've tried to highlight the portion of the text I'm referring to. The text says (in summary) that the doctrine of the Anabaptist reigned also in the time (tyme) of saint Augustine.

A Father's Admonition to His Son - King James VI & I to Prince Henry

 Recently I have re-discovered the fact that King James himself wrote many letters and these have been collected into various volumes.  I find it interesting to peek inside the thoughts of the man that God used to bring so many of the best scholars and linguists together for the translating of God's word into English.  

The title is a bit lengthy, and the writing is in the 1611 style English, but it is readable.

The workes of the most high and mightie prince, Iames, by the grace of God, king of Great Britaine, France and Ireland, defender of the faith
link here

The link above should take you to page 137, for a section titled 

HIS MAIESTIES IN
STRVCTIONS TO HIS
DEAREST SONNE, HENRY
The Prince.

Sound advice for any father to give his son, especially if this son is to be a ruler of men...a few examples

- Fear God
- Make ALL your laws spring from God's laws

Early Christian History of Britain

 

British History

Go just about anywhere in Britain, scratch the dirt and you are likely to find anything from medieval period metal to Roman or even pre-Roman pottery. This little island nation is rich in history, as are the surrounding areas of Ireland, Wales and Scotland. It is also very complex, involving multiple kingdoms and nations. 

Why bother with all this you say? As I heard a pastor once say, history is what you know, heritage is what you keep. The King James Bible is one of the best history books you can read.  Paul had told the church at Corinth earlier, in I Corinthians 10:11 not to forget the past, especially what had happened to their fathers that were with Moses. In Ezekiel 26 we read about the destruction of Tyrus (Tyre) and how it happened, yet not who specifically conquered it.  The Bible does name others who were to come against Tyre, but not the people that eventually conquer it. We can however, from historical records say that it was Alexander the Great and the methods he used, namely building the causeway out to the island for his forces to cross, is exactly as the Bible describes. 

A little background is due here.  At the time of Paul's journey to Rome, the Roman empire had already invaded Britain over 100 years earlier under Julius Caesar and then again (with a larger force) later in 47 AD under Emperor Claudius (see wiki here). So in the time period of II Timothy, Rome had already had connections with Britain.  It is also worth noting that according to some historians, there had been trade routes between the Mediterranean and Britain going back hundreds or even thousands of years, see this: wiki.  It's interesting to consider that at the time of the Roman conquest of Jerusalem in 70 AD, the Romans had been in Britain (then called Britania) and in about 61 AD, although being outnumbered 20 to 1, the Romans still defeated Boudica at the Battle of Watling street link here ==> wiki (although the exact location is still debated).

Wales

I suppose I should note that it was the subject of Wales that started much of my research. While watching various history content, there was a trend I was noticing.  That being the idea that the western and northern sections of Britain were never fully conquered or subdued by either the Romans or the Anglo-Saxons that came later. That is important when it comes to the notion of how Christianity came to this area. The Catholics and the Church of England, claim Britain had been under papal authority since earliest times.  We know there were English language Bibles before the King James Bible of 1611.  We know of the numerous persecutions of the Romans against Christians and later by the Catholic church in the 1400 and 1500's. That leaves a big window of time that little seems to be known about just what was going on in Britain.  Also, how did the Gospel come to Britain in the first place?  The conclusion of my readings is that there seems to have been holdouts from the earliest times in the west of Britain, having been pushed that direction first by the Romans, then by the Anglo-Saxons.  More importantly, while the towns and settlements accepted the demands of the Catholics, there seems to have been a remnant in their mountain holdouts, which resisted the demands of Catholics, namely infant baptism and the authority of the Pope. This seems familiar with the case with the Waldensens of Italy (see this post).  

In his book "History of the Welsh Baptists", published 1835, there is an interesting account of a Catholic monk,being sent by pope Gregory, referred to as Austin the monk - who, in about the year 600, confronted some folks that were already Christians in the area of Wales. Demanding that they submit to the pope and sprinkle their chidren. They seemed to have (more or less) told the monk to go pound sand.  Apparently, Roman Catholicsm had just now reached these people, who promptly rejected it.  They, as did the Waldenses, suffered greatly for their faith.

Joseph of Arimathea in Britain?

First off, the Bible makes no mention of this and none of this really matters in regards to Scripture, but as a "shade-tree" historian, I was interested.  Additionally, the further back you go, most historical sources you will find regarding Christianity are from Catholic sources.  The claim is that Joseph of Arimathea, mentioned in the Gospels (eg. Matthew 27) was Mary's (mother of Jesus) uncle and was a wealthy man who was involved in the tin trade.  Britain was a well-known source of tin on already established trading routes with the Mediterranean. Listen to these documentaries below for background info on this subject. 

 

II Timothy chapter 4

In the last chapter of II Timothy, we see mention of 2 people named Claudia and Pudens and nowhere else. All we can really say is that they were with Paul for some amount of time.  What if there were historical evidence that this same Claudia was a Welsh princess, or rather the daughter of a Welsh tribal chieftain?  Wales is in the UK - a long ways from Rome. To me, if true, would be a fascinating connection for the people and history of Britain and the Bible. I can't recall where I first read someone mention this (possible) connection, but I am pretty sure it was while reading a bit on Baptist history. Please note, I am not advocating this to be historical fact, yet it is something that seems to have some merit and something I will be looking into further. So, as someone who is more inclined to watch a history documentary than a football game, the notion of a woman named Claudia being connected with Britain caught my attention and I will be reading more on this subject.

Sources for further reading:

• History of the Welsh Baptists
• Gildas
• Bede

Regarding the Waldenses - Interesting Old Book by Samuel Morland 1658

As one starts to read about the Waldenses, you will sooner or later come across mention of this book.  The History of the Evangelical Churches of the Valleys of Piedmont, by Samuel Morland 1658. The writing is in the older Elizabethean style, the same as the original 1611 King James Bible.

I will be adding to this post later, with notable mentions, but it is full of accounts of who the Waldenses were and what they believed. In short - salvation by faith alone and believers baptism, long before the reformation ever started.

I found a used hardcover version on ebay and it.  It's a 1982 reprint of the original 1658 edition.  If you have read "The Trail of Blood", this is something I would recommend as well. I doubt if I read the entire thing from front to back, but sections at a time.

Fold-out map of the valleys of the Piemont that was in the front of the book I found. This area is in northern Italy.  History is what you know, heritage is what you keep...and we are loosing ours fast.

You can also find a PDF copy of this book, which typically contains two volumes - on archive.org here:
https://archive.org/details/historyofevangel00morl